皮划艇安全系列之二:大河事故特征和救援

皮划艇安全系列之二:大河, 大海洋流事故特征和救援

首先呼吁划白水的同学多出来交流,过度小群里转,即不利自己成长,也无法对大皮划艇圈有所贡献。中国皮划艇的发展靠你靠我. 不要太图自己爽,把经验传给后来的人才是中国皮划艇的最缺的东西!

从来没有人在网上提到过大河救援,大河事故,大海的洋流事故原理是和大河事故有那么类似的地方。

首先看事故的两大因素:
1, 失温 2, flush flood drowning, 这个大概说是长距离游泳后,失去呼吸的控制能力,最后被水呛死。

上面两因素是互相作用地,控制一个至少给了自己被救援的更多时间和机会。

小河的最常见事故是PIN住,大河完全不是一个概念。所以有人说,抛绳不管用,这是非常正确地,但究竟咋救, 没有见下文,真到昊子的黄河大赛总结贴说了一句: 用大阀。这个是大河救援最有效方法。

首先看看大河的游泳。有白水的大河,底下的石头是绊不住人,漩涡也留不人。 但水的温度,流速是最关键要素。流速越快,越容易失控,流速和流量以及跌幅有关。

本人在大河里被救过两次(著名的科罗拉多河2010和阿拉斯加大冰川河2012),也救过队友几次, 所以有第一手资料。再分析快速大河游泳的特征。

特别欢迎各位大侠的补充和讨论。

皮划艇安全系列之一: 第一杀手-水温
皮划艇安全系列之二:大河事故特征和救援
海洋风险评估 -- 皮划艇安全系列之三

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-19 22:03

过去大河漂流事故里,最有名当属长漂,黄漂,还有几年前的郭铮。

云南南盘江漂流突发惨剧,二人失踪,一人遇难- 磨房

长漂黄漂不尊重漂流科学反户外安全的原则我们没必要展开讨论,郭铮的事故因为考虑很多漂流前辈的悲痛感觉,很少被分析过,其实这加上长漂和黄漂, 是典型的大河flush flood drowning事故,失温因素多大,估计每个悲剧有不同的故事。 

很可惜,大侠漂过大峡谷和其他国内著名的大河,我能肯定,他没有对大河事故大河救援有过深入研究,也没有经历过领队的严格安全训练,当天做了一个致命的判断和决定。能读懂这个事故,就能避免不少悲剧的发生。由于好些大侠朋友还访问水版,只提一次,不再把那件悲剧往下分析。道理和下面的讨论分析,应该十不离八九。

“失温确实是水上运动的第一杀手。八十年代长漂和黄漂死了那么多人,我做了一个粗略的统计,发现其中绝大多数死于失温,真正淹死的很少。”水哥说的话。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-19 22:07

游泳在快速流动的大河,想上岸是一种很艰辛的事。特别是当皮划艇朋友喜欢上大河峡谷。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-19 22:41

这是著名的科罗拉多河WESTWATER一段,几十年以来,发生了几十起死亡事故,基本全和FLUSH FLOOD DROWNING有关(伴有失温),可谓最经典大河事故区。当然本身也很精彩,明年本团队可望有实力征服这段河但排不到时间。 

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/1840/

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-19 22:49

大河不能以宽度来定义,更科学的用流量,我换算下来,300立方米/秒,即可以叫大河,80立方米/秒以下可以称为小河。

上边的峡谷大约30-50米宽,流量1000-1500立方米/秒

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-19 23:09

flush flood drowning 也不是指洪水特有,是说类似洪水,大流量的快速水致命与突发洪水-山洪有类似之处。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-21 02:32

快速有激流的大河,游泳有一个特点就是河流把你往前,往主流里推,与往岸边游是对立的,加大上岸难度。有一次在科河,游了十分钟,离岸还是有70/80米远,没有进展,快崩溃了。

于是同伴来了,抓住船尾一块努力,才摆脱困境。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-23 15:14

Westwater 案例1:

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/3513/

“A Colorado man drowned in Westwater Canyon on Thursday when his raft capsized on a rapid, according to the Grand County Sheriff’s Office. Jaymond W. Brasher, 47, of Littleton, was thrown from the raft along with three other people when the group hit Skull Rapid in the Colorado River at about 12:45 p.m., the sheriff’s office said in a Friday news release. The group’s three other members found Brasher’s life jacket as they pulled themselves from the water. Brasher’s body was found about eight miles down river, washed up on an island, officials said. Brasher is the 11th person to drown in a Utah waterway since April 15.”

背景:2011 年洛基山遭遇了25年一遇的丰雪年,也就是大水年,估计水量是2000立方米/秒, 这段30公里的经典峡谷,有10几个大河三级以上激流组成,其中四级俩个。

事故很简单,最难四级激流翻了, 三人上岸,一人尸体在下游13公里处发现。估计当时流速达 10公里/小时,那么说这种地方游个1小时,冻不是你,也会折腾死你。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-24 14:54

Westwater 案例2

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/3222/
Salt Lake Tribune

Despite a rare genetic disorder that confined him to a wheelchair most of the time, 17-year-old Timothy Rau learned to downhill ski on a snowbike, climbed mountains and did the Iditarod with the Make a Wish Foundation. The Fraser, Colo., teen was rafting on the Colorado River on Saturday when the craft overturned. He was sucked into the rapids and drowned.

Rau's death was the fifth drowning fatality in the Moab area this year, a number police said is the highest in more than 20 years. It also was the second death at the same rapids in less than two months; an Ohio man drowned in the same spot Memorial Day. "The river is taking its toll this year," said Grand County Chief Deputy Curt Brewer. He attributed the rise in part to the large number of people boating and swimming.

Rau was on a private trip with a group of family and friends, Brewer said. They were traveling on three rafts between the towering red-rock walls of Westwater Canyon. He was riding with his mother , who Brewer said has about 25 years of rafting experience, and a family friend. They hit the class-3 Funnel Falls rapids about 1 p.m. Something went wrong and the raft overturned, dumping all three into the Colorado . Rau dropped out of sight in the churning water. He was wearing a life jacket, but his illness limited his mobility, Brewer said. A nearby kayaker saw him get sucked under by a second class-3 rapids, Skull Rapid. He stayed under for about 15 minutes, until two kayakers just beyond the rapids pulled him out of the water and onto another of the rafts. Someone started CPR and the group paddled out of the remote canyon to the Cisco takeout, about an hour away, and called for help, Brewer said.

When paramedics arrived, they couldn't revive him. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Grand County Sheriff Jim Nyland said that the group was well-prepared and experienced. "It's just an unfortunate situation," he said.

要点:出事的是残疾人(就当不会游泳把),大筏相对很安全, 7月初是大水量

前一个3+ 激流翻了,被冲倒下一个最难的4级激流,被漩涡困住达15分钟,被拖上后,已经没气了。

这个教训:像黄河大峡谷,就三级,总体不是那么难,估计过了浪区就是快速水道,给了救援各种机会。皮划艇须对漂流全程必须很清楚连锁反应。

最危险的是情形:大河千万别在最难激流前的激流翻了, 如此, 人在游泳过最难激流已经精疲力尽了,凶多吉少。反而在最危险的激流下翻船出事可能性要小不少。大河漂流必须有最坏的分析和准备, 连锁反应是大河漂流安全的一个关键。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-24 15:33

Westwater 案例3

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/3077/

Updated: 05/26/2009 02:23:52 PM MDT
An Ohio man died Monday when his raft overturned on the Colorado River, marking the end of a dangerous Memorial Day weekend in southeast Utah. Dennis L. Young, 57, of Columbus, Ohio, was washed down river after his raft flipped at Skull Rapids in Westwater Canyon. The other two people from his raft got out of the water quickly, but Young may have been in the water 20 minutes before other rafters extracted him, said Grand County Chief Deputy Curt Brewer.
Young was wearing a helmet and life jacket, but likely passed out from the cold water and drowned, Brewer said. The group continued to a landing spot at Cisco where they called law enforcement. Heavy rains created flash flooding in southeast Utah just as outdoor enthusiasts and concert- goers descended on the area for the holiday weekend. The Salt Lake Tribune (5/26/09) http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12450911?source=rss Ohio man killed after raft overturns in Utah May 26th, 2009 @ 10:02am MOAB, Utah (AP) -- Police say an Ohio man has been killed after his raft overturned in the Colorado River in southeast Utah. The Grand County sheriff's office says 57-year-old Dennis L. Young, of Columbus, Ohio, was one of three people in the raft on Monday when it flipped over at Skull Rapids in Westwater Canyon. The sheriff's office says the other two people in the raft got out of the water and could not resuscitate Young, The Salt Lake Tribune reported on its Web site Tuesday. They continued to a takeout and then called law enforcement.
KSL.com (5/26/09) http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6607781
Man drowns rafting near Moab
Posted: May 26, 2009 10:52 AM PDT
Sheriff's deputies say an Ohio man is dead following a rafting accident yesterday at Westwater Canyon in Utah. The Grand County Sheriff's Office says 57-year-old Dennis Young was rafting with two other people and a dog in Skull Rapids. They say the raft flipped and two men and the dog were rescued, but Young floated down the river. Once Young's body was recovered, efforts to resuscitate him were not successful. Young was wearing a life jack and helmet at the time.

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-24 15:45

这个世界著名的骷髅头骨激流,继续制造事故。骷髅头骨最强大的地方,是如果不刻意走左边,右边是一个非常厉害的漩涡,打翻大筏可能性〉70%, 什么小船硬艇〉95%, 一旦翻了,又难上岸水速奇快,大河事故的经典机制就出现了。

大家可以想想如果你参加这样的活动,有什么办法或决策可以减少出事概率?

上面这个案例:5月底水温10-15度(不太低也不高)水量不小,是漂流活动最容易小看的温度,太冷嘛,早有保温准备,太热嘛,也不会因为温度出大事。很多人忽略了小看了这不低不高的温度。

这个案例判断是失温+自救能力差导致。

这个案例对领队有重大的教育意义:是你的义务强迫穿干/湿衣, 你自己最弱的队员是否能冷静处理长距离游泳。

kurtyang04 · 2014-09-24 16:09

Westwater 是经典的大河峡谷:

还有一个是很多中国皮划艇手没有经历过的特点:

这个近二十公里的峡谷:如果是大大水,整个二十公里就是一个巨大巨长的激流,因为十个单个的激流由于水流快以及难上岸特点,全串到一块,如果你第一个就翻了没有有效救援,可能准备人体漂激流20公里, 10几个凶猛的激流,就是洋飞云大侠也会命丧黄泉。

在什么地方翻,在多少时间内实施有效救援是这种场景的最主要因素。

kurtyang04 · 2014-10-07 23:28

正像昊子大侠指出, 也是冰大侠去年黄漂刚开始寻找的东西,大河的主力军不是硬艇, 也不是小充气船, 而是摇橹船和大筏,而中国的皮划艇漂流这一块比较缺。不过最早的雅漂,长漂,黄漂,还有杨勇他们用的基本是大筏。这方面技术从来没有在网络上讨论过,发展也比较缓慢。

摇橹船和大筏, 作为救援和后勤的重要保障,是任何其他小艇无法做到地。

北美标准漂流大河的方式:
1 全部是大筏
2 大筏母鸡带小鸡充气船
3 大筏母鸡带小鸡皮划硬艇

我最近在这方面有所打算,专门开贴学习。本团队也刚制备了一套摇橹大筏。

kurtyang04 · 2014-10-09 15:09

案例4 非常经典
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/588/
NEAR MISS IN WESTWATER CANYON
By Slim Ray
A rescue class got a taste of the real thing On May 23 1991. I was teaching a class for Canyonlands Field Institute out of Moab, Utah. The CFI course, developed by Barry Miller, emphasizes dynamic, in-water rescue techniques for oar boats on big, continuous water. The clinic arrived Friday at Westwater Canyon. My co-instructor was Ron Griffith, who has had extensive big water experience in Utah and Westwater canyon. The students were all from S'Plore, a Salt Lake City group specializing in trips for special population (disabled, mentally retarded, etc.). There were four student boats, a student safety boat, and a safety boat from CFI. All were oar boats, and both instructors were in student oar boats. The Colorado river was about 8,000 efs when we put on, and rising.
Saturday night the trip had camped at Little Dolores, just above the rapids section of the Canyon. After a morning classroom session on the beach, the class did rapid swimming just below Little Dolores. By now the river had come up to nearly 12,000 cfs, which meant that most of the canyon was virtually one continuous big-water rapid. The class proceeded downstream, doing safety and rescue exercise in the rapids. After a boat towing exercise, all boats from the class had eddied out below Funnel Falls Rapid. Most of the boats were just below the rapid; however, my boatman had trouble catching the eddies (the water was a lot pushier and the eddies smaller than most of them were used to) and ended up in an eddy a hundred yards or so below the main group. Ron was with the upstream group.

kurtyang04 · 2014-10-09 15:11

As everyone bailed, two oar rafts approached Funnel Falls. The second boat, flipped at the top of Funnel Falls and began washing downstream down. At the high water level (11,500 cfs), Westwater Gorge is virtually continuous boiling, swirling water, making rescue difficult. The upstream CFI group saw the flip and moved into position for a rescue. The boat accompanying the stricken boat, however, continued through the rapid and was unable to render assistance. The CFI student boats came alongside the upside-down raft and began a rescue attempt. At the time they had no idea how many victims were involved. Only two heads were visible. One of the crew of the overturned raft, Steve, attempted to get on top of the boat, failed, and was picked up by one of the CFI boasts. The other person's head, (this was Mike Franklin), was barely visible alongside the overturned raft. The rescuers reached him quickly but were unable to pull him out of the water. After several long moments it became obvious that Franklin was hung on something. One of the CFI students got on top of the raft and another into the water to try to rescue Franklin. They were unsuccessful.
Meanwhile the entire group was moving rapidly downstream toward Skull Rapid, the largest rapid in the canyon (the distance between Funnel Falls and Skull is about three-quarters of a mile). Because of the power of the water, the group was unable to tow the overturned raft into an eddy. Rescue attempts continued until the group reached a point about 200 yards above Skull. The group had passed me and I was trying to overhaul them downstream: a slow process. As Ron passed he yelled to me that he thought we had someone entangled in a throw rope. As I approached I could see Franklin's head surface from time to time. Ron's raft was now next to Franklin's and he had him by the shoulders of his lifejacket. Angela was at the oars. I still had my swim fins on from the swimming exercise. After hearing Ron's shouted comments about the rope, I took off the heavy rubber gloves I was wearing and took out my knife (it was a folding Gerber; I did not open it). As our raft approached, I saw that 1) because of the number of rafts already around Franklin's raft, I wouldn't be able to get to it quickly, and 2) somebody needed to get in the water with the victim, so I went in and swam about fifty feet to the raft. Ron and I began frantically to try to free Franklin. When it became obvious that we were all going into Skull Rapid, Ron waved off the other boats to run Skull. We tried to keep contact with the victim as we did so. Ron kept hold of his life jacket, I tried to hold the boats together and keep hold of Franklin, and Angela somehow managed to row the two boats through Skull without hitting the (very large) hole. During the ride though Skull I got the victim's lifejacket free of the spare oar. As it turned out, the blade of the spare oar was pushed through the right arm hole and between the top and second snaps of the victim's Type V lifejacket. I was able to free him by unsnapping the top buckle. Ron had also had the foresight to brief everyone on how to run Skull before we left the beach for the day, and all the student boats made it through upright.

kurtyang04 · 2014-10-09 15:13

After Franklin was freed, Ron was able to get him into his raft in the tailwaves of Skull Rapid, while Angela rowed into the eddy on river left. A quick survey showed that Franklin was breathing but unconscious. He became responsive within a few minutes and fully regained consciousness after 5-7 minutes. A check with other members of the party revealed that two other raft passengers were missing. The overturned raft had continued downstream after Franklin's party, had eddied out at Skull. Ron quickly organized a search/rescue party of two rafts, a CFI student boat and the CFI safety boat, and headed off downstream in search of the missing rafters. I stayed in the eddy in Angela's raft to look after Franklin, who was in fairly serious condition.
Ron proceeded about 3/4 mile downstream to find the upside-down boat hung on a loop from a throw bag in swift current below Last Chance rapid (the last one in the canyon). He and Mike Smith (who was rowing the CFI safety boat) began rescue attempts and a search for survivors. They first tried unsuccessfully to bump and push the boat off with their rafts as they passed. Finally Ron succeeded in swimming out to the raft, just in time to see a person floating away from under it. Mike picked the man up. This was Lester, one of the missing passengers. While Ron retrieved the raft and checked underneath for the second missing passenger, Mike continued on around the bend. He proceeded half a mile more (the water was flat here) with the intention of stopping on a beach to warm up Lester. There he found Sarah, the other missing passenger, sitting on the beach, incoherent. Smith quickly set up a camp, changed the victims into dry clothes and sleeping bags, and gave them hot drinks.

kurtyang04 · 2014-10-09 16:42

测试 Upstream 我不知道为何贴不了全文。

作者Slim Ray 是世界上最知名的白水救援教材作者, 应该是白水救援的顶尖专家。他的书我5/6年前就拜读第一遍了。

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kurtyang04 OP 2014-09-19 22:41 置顶
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这是著名的科罗拉多河WESTWATER一段,几十年以来,发生了几十起死亡事故,基本全和FLUSH FLOOD DROWNING有关(伴有失温),可谓最经典大河事故区。当然本身也很精彩,明年本团队可望有实力征服这段河但排不到时间。 http:…

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流浪不等寒酸 kurtyang04 2014-09-23 00:57

国外也有这种“黄河”啊,

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kurtyang04 OP 流浪不等寒酸 2014-09-23 14:33

是呀,在下去300-400公里,这条河就变成了大峡谷。枯水期比较清。

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waterwalker 2014-09-20 03:53

很好的讨论内容。

Flush drowning是指人在水里,虽然穿有救生衣,但因为水流强大,靠不了岸且呛水导致溺毙。

对于白水硬艇救援,如果河面不宽,我们一般是把艇岸边顶,把人也拖到岸边。当然救人为先。如果河面比较宽,这时要用到"X"形救援,也就是救援的人先将被救援的艇拖到自己艇头,控干水,翻过来头尾相错放在自己的艇旁边,用身体稳住,让被救援的人爬上自己的艇。海洋艇也有同样的救援方法。这种救援方法是一入门就要练习的。应用很广。

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kurtyang04 OP waterwalker 2014-09-20 07:50

正想希望水哥补充硬艇救援, 我补充气部分,这就来了,谢谢水哥。读了水哥的言语,我好奇心来了,这次黄河救援是采用还是部分采用这法子?因为大部分人用的是硬艇。

说到与海洋舟类似,技术我就容易理解了。

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kurtyang04 OP waterwalker 2014-09-21 02:23

学到了。怒江估计是这么救援地,听朋友说,救花式艇比海洋舟还要麻烦费力。有时大河宽500/1000米,推艇上岸可以叫人崩溃,不过越宽到地方翻的概率就小。

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武武昊子 2014-09-22 17:13

大流量的河流,我下过怒江和黄河,都参加过救援,水哥说的气囊非常重要,在怒江时,估计去的人水平差不多,而且流量没有这次黄河大,河道也没这么宽,救援也就每次都很快,基本没有超过5分钟被泡的落水同学,采用的方式有X型救援,也有2人同时救援,一人拉人到岸边,一人顶艇到岸边,我落水游泳一次记忆深刻的是最多在水里呆了3分钟,而且穿了干衣,但是上岸后巨累还有冷,导致站的力气都没有,双腿一直控制不住的发抖,真不敢想在水里呆20分钟以上会怎样。这次黄河的救援经历,有用艇顶船靠岸2次,前提都是艇已经被同伴用顶和拖的方式离岸边已经不远了,这招才管用,在主流回流交界地带,这招完全没用,而且漩涡大,单艇用X型方式救援也非常难,自己都多次差点被漩涡打翻,加上都是大河流艇,再就是后面有气囊的几乎没有,那个重量,一个人根本拖不动,后来只有采用双人结排,来抵抗漩涡,再让水里的人和另外一个艇上的拼命的把艇拉上来倒水,再结排让人上艇,这个过程因为流量大,落水的在水里漂的速度远没有划艇救援的快,划艇的在保证自身安全的前提下,拼命划向落水者也是一件非常崩溃的事,回流的漩涡,巨大的流速,都导致非常难靠近被救者,我和光头救五哥,估计花了15分钟才把他救上艇,幸运的是黄河水温给力,被泡20分钟也没事,如果在怒江被泡20分钟,后果是严重的。

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waterwalker 武武昊子 2014-09-22 18:35

"X"型救援也有个时效,越快越容易。艇刚刚倒扣过来的时候,里面还是充满空气的,艇也高高浮起在水面上,这个时候救援相对容易些。随着时间的推移,可能因为水流,浪,或者被援者自己的原因,艇里会被灌进越来越多的水,艇下沉得越厉害,没有气囊的甚至会沉到水面之下,救援会越来越困难。要想救援快速有效,平时的救援练习很重要。

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kurtyang04 OP 武武昊子 2014-09-22 20:33

非常精彩的技术报告,竞技场变成活生生救援电影。

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武武昊子 waterwalker 2014-09-23 04:44

这次黄河的经历就是,想快速靠近落水者都很难,至少我遇到的2个是这样。

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清江白浪 2014-09-23 13:42

很好的技术交流贴,学习并赞楼上各位的经验之谈~

目前大河中出现的事故,失温无疑是排在首位的。个人认为,漂流大河,个人(团队)技术和装备要求都很重要。首先是漂流装备必需要有保证,该有的救援装备必须齐备,像干衣、气囊和充气救援大艇应列为必备装备,漂流人员也应根据自身能力选择(挑战)激流,避免产生一些无谓的救援,尽力避免打乱团队漂流活动计划。平时有针对性的救援练习也很重要。大河漂流是一项对团队成员协作要求很高的运动,只有平时多加练习、循序渐进才能磨合出一只合格的团队,逐步挑战级别更高的激流。
任何时候都要敬畏大自然,量力而行才好!

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kurtyang04 OP 清江白浪 2014-09-23 14:44

说得太好了,事实就如此,在大河漂流安全要点上,几位大侠提供了我在网络上能找到的最完整中文技术讨论。值得国内爱好者思考。

在长漂和黄漂过了那么多年后,国内的漂流在大河漂流上,一些错误继续犯,技术交流远远不够是主因外,对救援技术普遍不重视可能是另一个原因。抛绳才是救援初步,干衣/潜水衣是第二步,大河救援那么就是第三步。不客气地说,一些老前辈也缺乏系统的研究和分析,靠口对口的传教,效率很低。

再次呼吁国内皮划艇爱好者,重视磨房技术交流, 其对皮划艇届的发展可以起到一些关键作用。

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武武昊子 清江白浪 2014-09-24 07:30

清江说的没错,
怒江的活动,因为队员间彼此熟悉,水平也相当,而且平时训练比较多,所以每次救援都会很快而且配合默契,无论是被救援者还是救援者,都会迅速投入到自己的角色里面去,让救援迅速成功有效。
这次黄河,我还遇到这样一个事例,一个不认识哥们在水里,我过去要他抓住我艇,我拉他到岸边去,结果这哥们抓我艇变成猛力压我的艇,导致我当时差点被他压翻,那个时候,连续的救援已经体力消耗得差不多了,都在硬撑,如果我翻了,估计也会脱艇了,我也理解他,估计是新手,大河里落水心里慌,抓住我艇的瞬间,他把艇当救命稻草了,这就是平时没训练过的原因,正确的方法是他应该轻拉住我艇尾的抓手,把身体浮起来跟水面平行,他的踢腿动作配合我的划桨动作,彼此配合,这样可以迅速的划到岸边。
要玩白水,平时多看白水漂流的知识,多了解学习,加上多训练,学会风险评估,再根据自己的技术能力,团队能力决定下还是撤,才可以安全的玩得长久。

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爵士冰 2014-10-07 16:45

我们这些国内划艇爱好者的大河漂流经验,还是小学生水平。

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kurtyang04 OP 爵士冰 2014-10-07 17:40

冰大侠,作为大河漂流的领头人和金犀牛获奖者,您有空给一点感想或经验吧,全国野漂朋友从您的经历中得到灵感和启发。

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爵士冰 kurtyang04 2014-11-07 15:24

 我也是半路出家这几年才开始尝试探索大河漂流,从11年的通天河漂流开始,每年都有几次在青藏高原上的大河漂流活动,在一次次的漂流活动中,我热爱和迷恋上了这项户外运动,也经历了由无知而无畏到有知而畏惧过程。
进行长途远征式的大河漂流是一项系统的工程,类似于登山运动中的喜马拉雅式攀登八千米雪山。是漂流运动各种元素的集大成的展示,需要各种艇和筏子和后勤保障和相关人员的配合,以及漂流过程中何种因素的多方面考虑。
而国内水上运动的发展才几年,从事这项运动人员的能力,技术,安全等知识的了解和学习渠道不多,沉淀远远不够,大河漂流最关键的大筏子和撸桨相关技术更是没有实践经验积累的过程,路漫漫远兮!!!
很希望这里能够接触和学习到国外的更多经验和理念,让国内的大河漂流运动能健康的成长,减少无知无畏的代价!

后年是长漂三十周年纪念,我们将~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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kurtyang04 OP 爵士冰 2014-11-07 20:56

有冰大侠参与讨论,磨房水板就完整了,统领全国。非常感谢大侠提出的问题,是到时间提高中国野漂探险技术和救援水平了。

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万里孤鸦 2014-10-09 04:09

我个人的认识是,大筏跟硬艇在大河救援里只能说各有优缺点。大筏的优点在救援人数和救援装备在数量上的优势。硬艇则是因为速度及灵活性在救援地点及时效性上的优势。比如硬艇可以在滩尾切入一个石头后的小回水等待去救援,也可以在急流中迅速靠近待救者。而大艇通常很难做到这些。至于说国外大河漂流主流是大筏子是不是更多是因为后勤物资方面的考虑?

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小鱼儿大拿 2014-10-09 09:25

好帖,顶起,学习了!

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小鱼儿大拿 2014-10-09 09:27

其实这些的讨论,主要还是你选择的河流和你的领队经验! 文大川 还有彩云三江 有大筏漂流!桨手实在重要.

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kurtyang04 OP 2014-10-09 16:42 置顶
此内容已收录到正文,评论区保留摘要,方便承接下方 2 条回复 · 查看正文位置

测试 Upstream 我不知道为何贴不了全文。 作者Slim Ray 是世界上最知名的白水救援教材作者, 应该是白水救援的顶尖专家。他的书我5/6年前就拜读第一遍了。

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小鱼儿大拿 kurtyang04 2014-10-11 06:54

楼主,能不能翻译一下

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kurtyang04 OP 小鱼儿大拿 2014-10-11 07:29

一定会得,最近事多。

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mofang464 2014-10-16 08:17

触目惊心之余,发现几个问题。上面提到的一些大河事故或者险情,有几个严重问题值得注意:

1、用实战代替训练

某些新人似乎没有经历过严格的大河危机救援的训练,不要说救人,连被救都很陌生,导致队友也面临巨大的风险;

2、领队-队员、队员-队员之间相互了解不足

在不熟悉和充分了解所有队员的身体素质、技术水平、装备的情况下,作为领队把大家带下水是一种极不负责的冒险行为。同样的,一个队员对于自身客观条件没有一个理性的认知,绝对存在着害人害己的隐患;

3、救援措施和装备不到位

虽然户外活动确实存在风险,但在缺乏必要的安全措施和装备的情况下贸然下水,确实太轻率了。一旦出问题,领队和组织者难辞其咎,大家也都不好看。对这项运动也会产生极大的负面影响。

4、大河漂流不同于静水这种相对危险较小的项目,但是感觉好像经过一种系统的学习和训练的情况很少,基本上都是个人或者小团体自己摸索尝试着在搞,这种情况一个是进步缓慢,而且存在实战风险。

一个项目的发展壮大需要不断补充新鲜血液,但是万万不可失去控制,盲目浮躁和各自为战出事概率极大。真心希望磨房水版逐渐扩大影响力,特别希望顶尖高手多花点时间和精力帮助后学,将自己的技术和经验系统的加以总结,在光大划友当中传播正确的知识、心得和理念。

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kurtyang04 OP mofang464 2014-10-16 14:08

说得对,能分析出之所以然,本身就是一种学习提高过程。

知彼知己,百战不殆。 知道自己的短处,了解危险的地方和机理,就能避开无数事故的隐患。

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爵士冰 2014-11-08 02:29

分享三张今年九月初我组队漂流雅砻江上游的照片,此次漂流活动历时五天,漂流距离约三百公里。有四种不同的艇参与此次活动,其中两条14尺的排桨艇,这是我们首次在大河漂流中使用到大筏子,经验还在积累中。

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深海漫游 2018-01-21 23:35

跟爵士冰2017岁末云南三江连漂,队里有几个顶尖硬艇及救援配置,我体会了两种脱艇后的被救:抓住急流硬艇尾被同一救援者连艇带人带到岸边,X救援,很有效率。
目前在努力训练,希望尽快变为硬艇救人的角色。

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kurtyang04 OP 深海漫游 2018-01-22 15:33

赞,欢迎老资格爱好者的,多过来交流。

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深海漫游 kurtyang04 2018-02-11 02:09

因为是新手才到处学习,来到这里觉得信息量挺大的,谢谢各位前辈的沉淀!
结合上次的三江连漂及最近的学习,谈点粗浅的认识:
1. 一定要对漂流的团队熟悉,比如我非常清楚队里的硬艇救援能力以及滩大自己不敢独自划硬艇时,大筏子能将我和艇接上船,我跟筏子一起下滩。
2. 滩前读水很重要,根据自身能力确定漂硬艇还是上大筏子还是从岸上绕道下游。一是预防措施远强过救援;二是读懂水后即使翻艇脱艇也会心里有底,不会慌,能很好配合救援人员的指令。
3. 自己要有足够水性,要会攻击式游泳否则在大河里,无救援就难以进入回水区,难以靠岸。
4. 保温很重要,我第一次翻艇脱艇后,很快就被专职盯我的教练连人带艇拖到大筏子边上船了,可是因为干衣里面只穿了快干内衣,还是冻的够呛;后来加了抓绒衣裤再落水就好多了。
5. 再说回来团队,他的确太重要了!安全和乐趣的保障!三江漂流时,我之前没划过白水硬艇,因为爵士冰他们岸上带我读水,漂流时前有原国家激流回旋教练带路,边教边划,后有激流救援四级教练压阵,以致我这个还不会eskimo翻滚的人最后也能跟着玩2、2+滩不翻艇了。
6. 最后要说的是:自身的意识、技术和经验的提升是能否长期安全玩下去的关键。
三江连漂回来后上瘾了,在昊子带我第一次的两小时训练下,就成功翻滚了,现在已经首翻成功率90%以上;四处找学习资料,国内激流救援在编教材学习了,麦金利的‘’白水漂流‘’正在学,虽然他写的是大筏子漂流,但写的非常好所以我慢慢啃。
三月初的原班主要人马要再漂三江,正好我跟着去积累经验。
说的不对处请各位前辈指正!

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kurtyang04 OP 深海漫游 2018-02-12 01:08

写得很好,我也学到点东西,谢谢!

失温部分,团队部分,游泳部分都很到位。以后再多穿点,还可折腾更久时间以防万一。

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马可菠萝蜜 2018-01-27 09:12

首先呼吁划白水的同学多出来交流,过度小群里转,即不利自己成长,也无法对大皮划艇圈有所贡献。中国皮划艇的发展靠你靠我. 不要太图自己爽,把经验传给后来的人才是中国皮划艇的最缺的东西!

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kurtyang04 OP 马可菠萝蜜 2018-02-01 15:27

握手。

我早呼吁这样了,可惜没有人听我的。

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kurtyang04 OP 2019-03-20 00:34

重新审阅此帖